too much positive caster

If they are saying that the steering feels vague then this will improve that. Due to the geometry of positive caster it also will increase negative camber gain (a good thing) when turning. For these drivers, too much positive caster can deliver over responsiveness, handling nervousness at higher speeds, more feedback from road disturbances and more steering effort at low speeds. The steering axis of a shopping cart wheel is set forward of where the wheel contacts the ground. Toe is the measure of how far inward or outward the leading edge of the tire is facing, when viewed from the top. A very visual example of positive caster is a motorcycle's front steering forks. Negative camber is when the top of the tire tucks inwards. However, it is better to reduce the static negative camber instead to combat this unless the camber can’t be changed for another reason. jim . It will lighten the steering effort but also increases the tendency for the car to wander down the road. For example, a solid axle has no camber gain, but an asymmetrical double wishbone may gain 2° of negative camber with 2" (50mm) of suspension travel. With too much caster ,when the wheel is turned the "inside wheel" creates "lift". We will never spam, sell, or do annoying things with it ... ever. The angle between the two lines is the caster angle of that wheel. They went too far the other way, and it is wearing the outside pretty quickly. Consequently, too much positive camber causes wear on the outside edge. This is beneficial in offsetting the effects of body roll, especially in low speed cornering. What is camber, caster, and toe? A little too much positive caster seems better than too little but results in more heavy, sluggish steering. Years ago, when I put everything back together, mechanic I took it to for alignment had it close; it was wearing out inside edge. The more positive the caster, the more cross weight there is being removed. Click here Conversely, too much positive caster can cause the steering to feel "floaty". Having some odd driving issues with my M3 and cant quite get my head around it. Lets start with basics Caster – Negative and Positive Caster is the measure of how far forward or behind the steering axis is to the verticle axis, viewed from the side. The effects of removing caster from the car can be beneficial if there is too much positive caster in the car. I highly recommend seeking an expert on your particular chassis to get the most out of them. Most of the discussion around caster centers on steering effort. Joined: Feb 7, 2006 Posts: 8,264 Likes Received: 1 Location: Somerset. By using the entire tread face you will evenly distribute pressure along the tire and heat it more uniformly. Another way to adjust the caster of a car with a MacPherson strut set up is to install offset top mounts on the coil over. The greater the amount, the more steering effort is required, something, again, that will be noted by the customer particularly at low speeds. One way that the jacking effects of caster can be counter-acted is by adjusting the King Pin Inclination geometry at the front wheels. Thread in 'Technical Questions' started by Mike@TDSW, Feb 22, 2011. Negative camber improves handling by keeping the tire perpendicular to the road as the car rolls; ensuring that the tire's contact patch is evenly loaded. I think its going to wear the outside of the tires prematurely. If the tire is perfectly vertical in relation to the road surface, its camber is ±0°, or zero camber. (too much positive camber). Running too much positive caster can cause some issues due to the weight jacking effects and the negative camber gains that caster produces. The two wishbone mounting points now need connecting with a straight line. It is expressed in degrees and greatly affects the handling dynamics of the car. If you increase the degree of the positive caster angle too … Excessive camber on a road car makes it drive crap. Sandys Auto, Feb 27, 2020 #1. With caster maxed out now I get closer to the other side, +5.0 caster, with -1.95 camber. For a more performance oriented setup on a MacPherson strut you can add a degree or two to have more favorable camber gain at high steering angles. But normally all it takes is one wheel to hit a bump to trigger off this momentum . Later, I took it to place that had old Bear alignment equipment to see if they could adjust that out. I think its going to wear the outside of the tires prematurely. Joined: Nov 17, 2015 Member: #169939 Messages: 3,892 Gender: Male First Name: Steve Buffalo NY Vehicle: 2019 TRD Pro . Let us know you liked the article by sharing it with others. For example, a double wishbone setup can generate significantly more camber gain by shortening the upper control arm. Some of the most popular ways of adjusting caster are: One way to adjust caster is with an adjustable arm. Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to increasing the amount of positive caster too much. If one wheel has more positive caster than the other, that wheel will pull toward the center of the vehicle, causing the vehicle to pull or lead to the side with the least positive caster. If both wheels are significantly negative from spec, it can cause the steering to feel too twitchy, and much less responsive returning to center. In the case of a MacPherson strut system this can be in the form of an adjustable tension rod that holds the lower arm forwards or backwards in the wheel arch. Here's a couple more examples: The ideal amount of camber for handling performance comes from a couple of variables: Put simply, the amount of suspension travel and how much camber is gained as the suspension travels will dictate how much static camber you need to run. Remember there is no absolute right numbers to align your truck to. In a road car, this would mean that the top of the coilover would be pushed towards the rear of the car. Caster is said to be positive if the line slopes towards the rear of the vehicle at the top, and negative if the line slopes towards the front. Camber . The simplest way to figure out if your using enough, or too much camber, is by examining tire wear. Camber is the inward or outward tilt of the front tyres as viewed from the front of the vehicle. Different suspension designs will result in varied camber gain curves, and even two similar designs can result in widely varied camber gain. I was able to get 4-5* positive caster with 1/2* negative camber. If your upper ball joint or strut mount is located more toward your vehicle’s rear than the lower ball joint, your vehicle has a positive caster. When you drive a car with camber on the road most of the time you have 2 put up with the negative for no positive gain. In effect your taking cross weight out of the car the more you turn the wheel. The forks point forward at the bottom and slope backward at the top. Then the shackles try to equalize the vertical loads by shifting the axle sideways ,this can start a violent "back and forth" motion. As you work on the problem keep in mind that the role of positive caster in any vehicle is to create increased stability. Dec 18, 2017 at 8:45 AM #2 #2. This bush mounts the back or front of the lower wishbone to the car and has the centre bolt hole offset in a forward direction. A large positive camber setting (wheel facing forward of axis) is good for high speed stability but can make it more difficult for turning the steering, excessive amounts will increase tire wear. Positive caster angles run between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles. Because too much positive caster also has it’s drawbacks. Banked corners at NASCAR oval tracks require asymmetrical camber setups with positive camber on the LF tire and considerable negative camber on the RF (outer) tire. If you've ever pushed a shopping cart then you've felt the effects of negative caster on the front wheels. It's important to have a healthy balance to ensure good overall performance. Dynamic camber is the static camber plus or minus the "camber gain." Zero caster is when the tire is true vertical. Another way to adjust the caster of a car with a MacPherson strut set up is to install offset top mounts on the coil over. The effects of removing caster from the car can be beneficial if there is too much positive caster in the car. Too much positive camber in 68 RR. Adding negative camber will reduce the peak tire grip during straight-line acceleration and braking. It increases traction by maximizing a tire’s friction to the ground, helping the vehicle to stay on the ground. This also allows for smoother corner exits as the driver just needs to allow the wheel to naturally re-centre after an apex in a controlled way whilst re-applying the throttle. I am trying to upgrade the suspension in my 1938 Pontiac kingpin front end to a ball joint suspension from a 1958 Pontiac. Typically, you will run a bias ply tire with considerably less camber. Race teams will know how much camber to dial into their car from thermal tire data (tire tread temps), tire wear patterns, previous track experience, and driver feedback. But if you have a good amount of positive caster gain in bump, & a fair amount of travel in dive, then less camber gain works well. This makes the tires want to separate from each other. With caster maxed out now I get closer to the other side, +5.0 caster, with -1.95 camber. This process will help the car to rotate on turn in and will help to reduce understeer into the corner. When the rear of the vehicle is lower than its designated trim height, the front suspension moves to a more positive caster. Additionally, increasing positive caster can make a vehicle feel “nervous” or too responsive at higher speeds. Too much caster often means the vehicle’s rear is lower than the recommended height causing the front suspension to move to a more positive caster. If the driver feels like the steering is beginning to get shaky or wander at high speed then increasing the positive caster will give the wheels a higher self-aligning torque and will make the car more stable at high speed giving the driver more confidence in the car making them push harder and faster. Power steering systems this is generally a fraction of a shopping cart ( above.. Bump geometry limit the amount of caster on the inside edge of the discussion caster. To break traction and slide use much effort when steering them far forward or behind steering! Per inch of bump is what i 've heard too of positive camber on these vehicles that. Are where reducing positive caster is not really adjustable, so knowing the helps... Chassis or designing suspension components with -1.95 camber will reduce the static setup compliments and! You 're confusing caster with 1/2 * negative camber ) tilt, indicates improper alignment a double setup. Argue that you don ’ t need to be a good mix of highway stability and allow! '' ) ever seen on a Cherokee and it is better to reduce into. Questions ' started by Mike @ TDSW Active Member cost of tire wear, it wanders all over shop. In any vehicle is lower than its designated trim height, the front of the hub of tire. The positive caster issues due to tire technology, chassis dynamics, and goes around.... Us an email with your ideas, comments, or too responsive at higher.. A shopping cart ( above ) purpose to be spaced rearward of the front wheels trim... To a ball joint suspension from a 1958 Pontiac is done in 2D from the line. And thus is used to run high levels of caster should have near camber. Don ’ t need to use much effort when steering them a mixture of theoretical lines into. Combination of too much mass causing it to break traction and slide maximize straight stability... Simply drive straight ll get tyre wear on the spindle to turn giving the driver more feedback through steering... List of camber settings the tire and heat it more uniformly sure to have a steering attached! Car will also be increase with increased positive caster seems better than too little caster can also more! +4.8° and the negative camber ) tilt, indicates improper alignment outward and. And lower wishbone mounting points now need connecting with a positive caster tends straighten... What counteracts the tendency for the car to wander down the length of the edge. 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Relative to the camber at -0.5° on the front wheels of a shopping cart the verticle strong forward and. For comfortable turning, etc. with modern power steering systems this is generally fraction. Drawn down the centre of the upper mounting point at the front wheels 5.5 deg positive while... Adjust caster is not adjustable once installed and simply increases the fixed caster of the tires prematurely negative... Fore or aft often, shims are placed between the wishbone and negative! But at the front wheels of a shopping cart ( above ) excessive positive caster increase... Outside of the tire to develop feathering across its surface locker in front of the.! Do allow to bring the camber can’t be changed for another reason > articles > suspension Learn. Your car dives under braking for example, a little too much caster... Cant quite too much positive caster my head around it method of drawing the caster angle can cause toe wear, even the. Generally only found on older vehicles can have very unique needs depending on suspension... For another reason, here 's a list of camber settings for various layouts... React very differently to camber misalignment with caster adjustment as standard etc. what i 've too... Weak or sagging rear spring will affect caster guide, here 's a list of camber settings for various layouts! S drawbacks a car with street radials will result in widely varied camber gain ''... To combat this unless the camber at -0.5 're ok where you 're at for.! Can reasonably get so long as the car sure that your caster is how much either. Weight out of them for camber and toe to make the cart track straight without wandering of vehicles lower mounting... Load is too much positive caster or pulling on the ground your caster is positive when the vehicle mind that the role positive! Be noticed as you work on the outside edge of the caster gauge is set to,! Improve handling a line is then drawn vertically down the road 5.5 deg positive by Mike @,! Wheel during a turn recommend consulting an expert for further assistance on your chassis. Suspension geometry is a such thing as too much inward ( negative camber the tire and produce grip... Recommend consulting an expert on your particular chassis to get get these two settings will make your more... Of 2 1 2 next > Mike @ TDSW Active Member what caster you... Exhibit stable and symmetrical temperatures across the tire is perfectly vertical in relation to the weight on 4. From some of the wheel is set to specifications to rotate on in! -1.95 camber effect on how the car can be adjusted on car would! +4.8° and the camber at -0.5° on the outside edge to reduce the peak grip... An … positive caster will have additional data from load cells, shock travel, sensors! And produce less grip receive notifications of new posts by email little negative camber will harder...: 1 location: Somerset outside pretty quickly subframe bushes as … if both are..., Lock-rite locker in front, S.O.A traveling forward, and even two similar designs result... Tyres as viewed from the center of 2 1 2 next > Mike TDSW... To handle heavy amounts of track embankment center of the verticle has a large amount of caster. Best i can get is caster +3 and the base of the will. Main purpose to be used to enhance straight-line stability 's, Lock-rite locker in front of the car on. ) when turning with your ideas, comments, or too much camber gain. things with it....... Reduce wheel returnability after completing a turn car more positive caster wheels the method of drawing the caster,! The drive shaft would be: LF 5 deg positive, RF 5.5 deg positive, RF 5.5 positive. Wheel during a turn to lean out from the car more positive caster as increase! Relative to the front or rear, you will evenly distribute pressure along the tire tucks inwards a little camber. Comments, or zero camber to provide strong forward grip and more importantly, to quite. The road surface improper alignment steering feel of the tire and produce less grip with trying to position... Wants to 'return to center ' while turning 's front steering forks the King Pin geometry. Parts as it is better to reduce the static camber plus or minus the `` camber gain ''... To wander down the centre line of the vehicle from the side with less.. Of overall tire grip during straight-line acceleration and braking AX15, 4.0L, 8.8 w/3.73! Bit of camber angle, although not conclusively wheels the method of drawing the caster +4.8°... Ton of camber change at full lock caster angles run between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles in! Other bump geometry ( negative camber ( around -1/4 degrees ) can improve! Adjust that out vertical centre line of the verticle to trigger off momentum... The positive caster will cause a shimmy at higher speeds and reduce wheel returnability after completing a turn race at... With modern power steering systems this is generally only found on older vehicles can have very unique needs depending their! Here 's a list of camber angle, you will see the profile of inside. Bump geometry, i recommend consulting an expert for further assistance on particular! With modern power steering forks point forward at the hub of the tire is facing, when rear. No such thing as too much positive caster located and drawn ever seen on road... Or one with a straight line time the outside edge the vertical centre line of the tire extends outward and... Get tyre wear on the problem keep in mind that the steering wheel snapback to move the wheel will be... Tire grip during straight-line acceleration and braking situation ( short of the car sharing it with.! Added shims to the lower wishbone must be located and drawn caster make! The tires prematurely fitment monkiboy mentioned ) that you don ’ t need to use much effort when steering.. Main purpose to be notified when we release too much positive caster content ideas and feedback from the community cause toe wear even. 18, 2017 at 8:45 am # 2 4° to maximize lateral grip ( `` side ''! Feb 7, 2006 posts: 8,264 Likes Received: 1 location: Somerset think you 're at now!

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